Yes, both atheists and vegans are self-righteous nuisances who tend to cause problems at family reunions. Other than that striking similarity, this question seems a strange one; after all, what could atheism and animal rights possibly have to do with one another? Veganism is very much a belief in something, while atheism is a lack of belief in something.
Despite these differences, two connections come to mind. First, the two most common defenses (though not the best) of eating meat are closely linked with a God-created universe. The first of these defenses is that nonhuman animals were put here by a God to be used by humans and that they do not have souls so it is alright to use them. The second defense claims that humans have some special characteristic, such as intelligence or language, that all other animals do not. This claim, that one species possesses some characteristic wholly absent in ALL other species flies in the face of any theory of evolution, which maintains that differences between species are quantitative, not qualitative. So if nothing else, atheists should perhaps be more receptive to arguments for veganism.
Knowing many vegans and many atheists, the other thing I’ve noticed in common between them is not some argument they’ve heard or philosophy they have, but the way in which they came to their respective beliefs. Most atheists I know can relate some story about having been raised religious and then being confronted with arguments for atheism. We had a belief mostly because our parents had the same belief and because of convention and the culture we grew up in. Questioning these beliefs and coming to an alternate truth was likely a long, uncomfortable process that didn’t please your relatives. Many vegans I know share similar stories of confrontation, discomfort, and parental and social disapproval. So perhaps another connection between atheism and veganism is a common process by which one becomes atheist or vegan.
The link may merely be that both atheists and vegans are likely to be skeptical of the beliefs and traditions with which they grew up and that this skepticism leads to an eventual rejection of the cultural norm, whether it is theism or carnivorousness.
Well, that and we’re both pretentious.
It’d be interesting to see what the actual correlation is between religious belief and dietary beleifs/habits.
The Pastor of Maranatha Baptist Church in Logan and his wife were vegans. He retired two years ago and they have moved to West Virginia. He never implied that Christianity required this diet but he also felt that it was a good diet for simple living in a overburdened world and for good health.
Obviously, there are often correlations between religious belief and dietary beliefs (Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist, Jewish, Muslim, Mennonite, etc), but there will obviously not be a single belief set (vegan, omnivore, or other).
I was fascinated as a Mormon elementary student to watch the Catholics in my school choose non-meat dishes at Friday lunch. Some of the reasons provided for that selection seem pretty good to my 2nd grade mind. I also applaud the dominant LDS culture of the 1950′s and 1960′s for accommodating the Catholic dietary request in Utah public schools.
Disclaimer: I am no longer vegetarian, but was vegetarian for 10 years (and was pretty militantly vegan for a part of that time). I now think eating meat is morally permissible (though Americans eat far too much … and for all the hand-rubbing about gas mileage in cars and all of that, the single best thing you can do to thwart climate change is to eat less meat, or to at least eat locally produced meat).
Most of the “religious” arguments for meat eating are pretty lame. I have most often heard that argument from some evangelical Christians on my wife’s side of the family. But this is a case where their biblical literalism gets them in some trouble.
To make their argument they typically appeal to the “dominion” passage in the Creation story. “God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (Gen 1:28).
But then it as if they stop reading, for in the very next line it makes clear that when God created man, he made him vegetarian. In fact, all animals were vegetarian.
“Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground – everything that has the breath of life in it – I give every green plant for food. And it was so.” (Gen 1:29,30)
It is not until after the flood that God permits the eating of meat. “Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.” (Genesis 9:3,4) But here the eating of meat, while allowed, is pretty clearly a consequence of man’s disordered relationship with both God and nature.
Man did not even use animals in any way until after the fall, for it is only after the fall that they use an animal skin to cover themselves (before this they were naked without shame).
I am not here defending a literal interpretation of Genesis. Just pointing out that the typical “God put animals here for us to use” argument (usually made by someone happy to appeal to the Creation story as evidence) is not a simple and tidy argument as they seem to think.
One problem vegans seem to overlook is that they are privileging Kingdom Animalia over all other forms of life. Everything that lives feeds on the death of another living thing, whether that’s salad or a cute little bunny. You could be devoutly Christian, agnostic, new agey, or of any faith and realise that. If you truly honour all life, then you’ll eat all of it in moderation and balance and appreciate the significance and value of all forms of healthy nourishment. Including medium rare cuts of filet mignon.
Most of the atheists I know think veganism is silly because it’s a violation of the dietary needs the human body evolved to have. It is literally impossible to be a vegan and be healthy without neurotic attention to supplements and other unnatural methods of nutrition. Also, most of the atheists I know came from militantly religious backgrounds. They didn’t walk away from rigid faith systems with strict codes of behaviour to just sign on for another one.
“It is literally impossible to be a vegan and be healthy without neurotic attention to supplements and other unnatural methods of nutrition”
No, it’s actually not. It is quite possible to consume only a vegan diet w/o supplements, and be completely healthy. You just have to know what foods to combine in order to get all your necessary nutrients, but I dare say that’s true of omnivores as well (and I’m an omnivore).
I don’t know a vegan who isn’t aware of the fact that all living things die and subsist on each other, but there’s a clear, qualitative difference between a vegetable and an animal – namely a nervous system capable of feeling pain and some degree of self-awareness/intelligence.
Now certainly one can be vegan and still support ecologically harmful practises like vast monoculture farms, but being vegetarian or vegan does cut down significantly on contributing to the problems associated with meat and other animal by-product production.
“Also, most of the atheists I know came from militantly religious backgrounds. They didn’t walk away from rigid faith systems with strict codes of behaviour to just sign on for another one.”
I really don’t see a connection here. I as an atheist do certainly have a strict code of behaviour. It’s not a religious code, but it’s a code nonetheless. I quite strictly am opposed to war and capital punishment and censorship and harming others.
Since I agree with Craig so rarely, I thought I would here:
Molly says, “It is literally impossible to be a vegan and be healthy without neurotic attention to supplements and other unnatural methods of nutrition”
This is either plain just false or stated much too strongly. Many think vegans struggle to get calcium, protein, B12, or iron. But this is not necessarily so. A well planned vegan diet avoids those shortfalls. I will say that vegans need to be pretty scrupulous about their food. My experience as a vegan was that it was sometimes pretty “high-maintenance”, but I never took any supplements and had a very well rounded diet in terms of nutritional needs. It might be easier now, I was vegan and vegetarian before even big box grocers carried vegetarian/vegan friendly foods.
Given the state of your average American diet, even a lazy vegan diet would be a great improvement for most Americans. Most Americans get far more protein than they need, and hardly know what a green vegetable tastes like. And, as Craig points out, there are notable environmental benefits to a vegan or vegetarian diet. Hybrid cars and alternative energy get all the press, but the single most effective thing you can do to reduce your carbon footprint is to eat less meat. The climate change argument has really been giving my wife and I (both of us former vegetarians, though she was never vegan) pause. I think we are something like “flexitarians” now.
There is something to be said about how incredibly scrupulous about their food some Americans are becoming, in terms of the strictness of code. Mary Eberstadt wrote an article on this a few years ago, called “Is Food the New Sex?” In an age where we are much less strict in our moral norms around sex, the moral norms about what we eat are becoming ever more strict. Any article with a section called “BROCCOLI, PORNOGRAPHY, AND KANT” is worth reading:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/5542
“Since I agree with Craig so rarely, I thought I would here:”
LOL. Thanks. It’s good to know we have some common ground
While i respect your opinion, phrases like “both atheists and vegans are self-righteous nuisances who tend to cause problems at family reunions” are extremely untrue and paint a bad image. Atheists and vegans are NOT self righteous people, yes, of course there are some that could tone the advocating down a notch, but saying all of them are self righteous is just plain rude. I am a vegan, and also an atheist. The reasons? I became vegan because of ethics. NOT because I reject the whole “god” created animals for us to eat. The way we treat animals is absolutely disgusting, we treat them with no respect and we treat them like objects rather than beings. They are sentient beings who DO feel pain, and DO have emotions. We have no right ending their lives early just to feed our gluttony. I think everyone can agree to that? All the vegans I know share this same belief. As for Atheism, I was never a very religious person, I have been to church a few times with a friend, but something for me wasn’t right. I do not believe in a “god” or “being” in the sky the same reason why I don’t believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. Just think about the story behind christ; he was born to a virgin, and now lives in the sky? I’m sorry, but for me, that doesn’t add up.
I know my views are considered “extreme” to some people, and I do not push them onto others. I do not think it is right to shove views into others’ faces. That is why vegans/atheists have such a bad image around them. People can believe and choose to believe what they want and I respect that. It makes me sad that others can’t respect my views though. Maybe I am just lucky that I was raised, and have parents who are open minded and who have taught me to respect others and what they believe in. I guess some people aren’t so lucky? I am not self righteous, and would really just like other people to understand that, and show some respect. I’m a young girl in a huge world, and I’m just trying to make a small difference somehow. Oh, and we don’t all bite
Bryce is a vegan and atheist too, Crystal. His comment that both vegans and atheists are self-righteous wasn’t meant to be taken seriously, I imagine.
This week I have stumbled across a couple of ‘eating ethically’ radio shows.
First one, Doug Fabrizio interviews Alan Richman (GQ journalist) about his GQ article “Eat No Evil”:
“Eating Ethically” on Radio West
Mr. Richman is pretty pessimistic about the US ever achieving a wide spread trend towards ethical eating. You should at least visit his 10-commandment list for ethical eating from his article in GQ:
Alan Richman’s 10 Commandments of Ethical Eating
The other radio show was on “Speaking of Faith” from American Public Media radio. The host, Krista Tippet, interviews Barbara Kingsolver, the author of “Miracle: A Year of Food Life”. Her family tries to “eat well” for one year.
Ethics of Eating
Both Kingsolver and Richman say that ‘vegan’ is not necessarily ethical eating. Rather, local buying of real food in season is most important.
I thought the “Radio West” interview was more interesting, but the “Speaking of Faith” interview was a bit more hopeful.
Aren’t we so fortunate that our ancestors had no qualms about eating meat, not knowing that this would enable them to evolve out of such a primitive, superstitious belief system? But that’s what’s nice about civilization now — we don’t have to eat meat to increase the size of our brains anymore when we have a buffet of nutrition.
A lot of the atheists I know think veganism is just plain silly because it’s a violation of the dietary needs the human body evolved to have.