04.25
I have often defended Mormonism against the accusation that it is a cult. “Cult” is a loaded term that people throw around a bit too lightly. But that said, the LDS Church does invite the accusation with how it vilifies apostates and discourages dissent.
Case in point: At home one weekend, I found the book Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith (2007). Thumbing through it, I came upon a chapter entitled: “Beware the Bitter Fruits of Apostasy.” Here are some choice excerpts:
Losing confidence in Church leaders, criticizing them, and neglecting any duty required by God lead to apostasy.
Heber C. Kimball, while serving as a counselor to President Brigham Young, reported: “I will give you a key which Brother Joseph Smith used to give in Nauvoo. He said that the very step of apostasy commenced with losing confidence in the leaders of this church and kingdom, and that whenever you discerned that spirit you might know that it would lead the possessor of it on the road to apostasy.”
Wilford Woodruff, while serving in the Quorum of the Twelve, said: “Brother Joseph used to counsel us in this wise: ‘The moment you permit yourselves to lay aside any duty that God calls you to perform, to gratify your own desires; the moment you permit yourselves to become careless, you lay a foundation for apostasy. Be careful; understand you are called to a work, and when God requires you to do that work do it.’ ”
Those who apostatize lose the Spirit of God, break their covenants, and often persecute members of the Church.
“Strange as it may appear at first thought, yet it is no less strange than true, that notwithstanding all the professed determination to live godly, apostates after turning from the faith of Christ, unless they have speedily repented, have sooner or later fallen into the snares of the wicked one, and have been left destitute of the Spirit of God, to manifest their wickedness in the eyes of multitudes.
“There is a superior intelligence bestowed upon such as obey the Gospel with full purpose of heart, which, if sinned against, the apostate is left naked and destitute of the Spirit of God, and he is, in truth, nigh unto cursing, and his end is to be burned. When once that light which was in them is taken from them they become as much darkened as they were previously enlightened, and then, no marvel, if all their power should be enlisted against the truth, and they, Judas-like, seek the destruction of those who were their greatest benefactors.” (History of the Church, 2:23)
If the LDS Church wants to shake its cult image, it has to stop publishing stuff like this. Several church leaders have encouraged doubt—why not emphasize that tradition instead?
Mormons would also do well to better understand why people apostatize. While some may leave the church due to “sin,” it is grossly unfair to reduce everyone’s loss of faith to that.
John Dehlin, a popular Mormon blogger and winner of the “bridge-building” Brodie, has created a presentation on why people really leave the LDS Church and how members can reach out to them. (Hint: Don’t dismissively call them “bitter,” “wicked,” or “Judas-like”). I hope our Mormon readers take the time to watch it.
I love that video. And I agree with your assessment on the use of the word “cult”. As I understand it there are more formal academic definitions of the word, but many use the word when referring to the LDS church in a purely pejorative way. It’ll be used as an insult until the accuser is called out on using it, and THEN they’ll get out their diagnostic criteria. That said, Mormonism does fit a lot of the criteria in the more academic definitions. I just think the word “cult” has been transformed similarly to the way “idiot” and “retard” have been, and that critics of Mormonism would benefit from being more careful about using it.
Excellent video. “our church puts an unhealthy emphasis on things being true”. wow. It would be nice if he could also say “our church utilizes terrible methods to determine truth”.
Someone should write a history of apostasy in Utah, I think this dynamic is at the heart of Utah culture (and counter-culture).
I didn’t watch the video (sorry, but Mormonism already takes enough minutes of my day, I am not going to voluntarily give away another 57 minutes), but what is wrong with putting an emphasis on “things being true”? Should we not emphasize the truth? Is it “unhealthy” to do so? Please explain.
What I hear from most of my disaffected / ex-LDS students is quite the opposite of this sentiment – that the LDS Church puts an insufficient emphasis on things being true! That is certainly my experience with most of my LDS students – they worry more about “what works” rather than “what is” – they are a very pragmatic lot who seem mostly uninterested in the question of whether their faith is true. Hence the common method of conversion is to point out not the truth of the faith, but its alleged beneficial consequences (it is good for the family, etc etc).
In the video the guy is trying to say, “yes there are serious issues with the LDS church but it still has value”. I think he thinks the binary thinking in LDS churches sets people up for disappointment. But if you actually do think of it in a binary way, it’s probably false which is why (and I don’t want to be offensive at all because I do appreciate that guy and his video) he’s probably in denial.
Leaving the church you’re brought up in has an impact on your relationship with your family and your community (esp in mormonism). So I think he’s trying to point to that and the value of that in contrast to simple truth value.
I’m not sure about now but last time I checked mormons regularly talk about “knowing the church is true” so I don’t think you can fairly say they de-emphasize truth. They might suck in relation to it (poor methods for determining it) but they definitely emphasize it.
Most testimonies at testimony meetings end with “I know the church is true and that Joseph Smith is a true prophet”.
Fair enough. My comment there was entirely anecdotal. And I’ve never been to a “testimony meeting” (maybe I should sometime … does a SHAFTer want to escort me?). But I have had a number of Mormons attempt to convert me with those methods (look at how good it is for the family, etc). That is very often the default position my students take when I press them on the truth of their claims. I have also had this experience with neighbors (one of whom flatly admitted that he doesn’t really believe much of it but is a Mormon “because it is so good for my family”).
But you are right, my referring to this as a “common method” of proselytizing was much too broad. I admit my remarks had only anecdotal evidence. And perhaps people, particularly students, are less willing to really have at the truth question with a philosopher.
But what sounds like his point is a good one – there is a value in the personal expression of faith, even if the faith is not true. I suggested this at a Christmastime post on this blog – respect that your parents are working out the question that is their lives in their own way. Even if it is not your way, there is value in it if for no other reason than the expression is a sincere expression of the human condition. Taking that attitude allows for a considerably kinder and more humane approach to those with whom we disagree. This is especially important with family. (I’ve had to do the exact opposite, trying to be find value in the atheism of my family, since I am the “black sheep” that left the atheist family flock for faith!)
Thanks for the clarification.
“And perhaps people, particularly students, are less willing to really have at the truth question with a philosopher.”
Yeah, and perhaps by the time they’re talking with you they already realized the methods for determining truth taught in their church aren’t really going to work in this context. I think it definitely would be fair to say “the LDS Church puts an insufficient emphasis on the pursuit of truth“. As far as I can tell the party line is roughly “pray this prayer with a sincere heart and you’ll know the truth” which isn’t exactly what you want to be telling people concerned with history or empirical evidence.
I had some really interesting conversations with Mormons after philosophy classes as a student at USU. My fav by far was one where a student waited for me to apologize on behalf of mormonism for stuff Kent Robson had said during class (accurate but currently unfashionable idiosyncratic positions Robson held).
Well put, Mike. Thinking of the “faith seeking understanding” model from Augustine, might we say that Mormons have the “faith” part but very little of the “seeking understanding” (especially in the Augustinian context where philosophy is seen as an absolutely essential ally in that pursuit).
Yeah I loved that vid! I have never heard of him before but I really like his style.
I do think however that the quotes on apostasy have a historical context, but that they shouldn’t be hidden. Apostates did cause a lot of problems for the church. But ultimately I do agree that stigmatizing those who have left the church in recent times with admonitions against those who actively and literally fought against the church in the past is wrong.
mmm… I like me some bitter fruit!
I give a quick two cents beyond the concept of Mormon truth or untruth.
I agree with one aspect of the phrase itself — ‘bitter fruits of apostasy’. I have observed in myself and others who leave behind a religious community, a reactionary response to that community. Indeed, bitter ridicule becomes a dominant characterization of the communication back toward the community. It takes quite a while to look back with more sympathetic eyes.
Having been in the category of apostate twice, my second experience of bitter fruit is shorter but no less bitter. I would prefer to move quickly past the bitter fruit. It serves only to sour my stomach.
In my own experience I didn’t have much ‘bitter fruit’ until I was accused of being used by Satan to lead other people astray. At that point I still tried to be friendly but I thought it was best to keep silent so as to avoid the witch hunt and also to ensure that people weren’t taking my word too seriously (which is, I think, what underlies the concern that you are “leading people astray”). I didn’t want that power or that responsibility and I still don’t.
In summary, figurative “bitter fruit” should be taken with an English bitter.
Ahh. Let’s lift a pale ale sometime again.
A question for kleiner.
How do you go about seeking truth for your Christian faith?
I do understand that the church says that anything critical of it is from satan. Much more then other Christian sects.