In a recent address to LDS young adults in Boston, Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Twelve Apostles talked about the need to defend religious freedom and the family against “atheistic forces.” Below are some excerpts from his address:
Opposing forces are competing for our allegiance: right versus wrong, good versus evil. They are not always easily discerned…These forces are, in fact, conflicting religious systems of belief. They are theistic (godly) forces and atheistic (ungodly or satanic) forces.
Theistic forces, be they Islamic, Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, or Mormon, are based on the fact that there is an absolute right and wrong. Theistic forces inculcate an ethic to revere the righteous judgments of a loving God, and to obey civil and divine law voluntarily. Theistic forces instill a conscience to do what is right, and obey laws that otherwise might be unenforceable.
Unfortunately, good culture alone is not strong enough to cause good culture to endure in perpetuity. Additional strength is needed from the power of theistic conviction. For this reason, a policy to separate completely church and state could become completely counterproductive [emphasis added]. Theistic forces would be erased and atheistic forces would be allowed to flourish unopposed in the public square. The theistic and noble concept of “freedom of religion,” could be twisted and turned to become an atheistic “freedom from religion.” Such an unbalanced policy could sweep out theistic forces for societal success and leave the field wide open to atheistic ideology, secularism, suffering huge losses for all.
Without the acknowledgment of God in one’s life, momentary pleasures will be continually dampened by their own fleeting froth.
If civil law were altered to recognize so-called “same-gender” marriage, you as believers in God, and keepers of His commandments, would then be regarded as exceptions to the rule. Your conscientious convictions would then be regarded as discriminatory, or even bigoted. If you were a Christian school teacher, you could be charged with bigotry for upholding the Lord’s law of chastity. In truth dear brothers and sisters, if you lose marriage, you also lose freedom of religion. All this because atheistic moral bedlam and religious repression go hand in hand. At stake is our ability to transmit to the next generation the life-giving and inseparable culture of marriage and the free exercise of religion.
This continues a trend I observed earlier of LDS officials directly confronting atheism, and it’s significant for two reasons: First, it’s a recognition by the church that it’s losing a growing share of members to nonbelief; and second, it helps mainstream the LDS Church, because it gives Mormonism a common enemy (atheists) with other religions.
Hat tip to Main Street Plaza for the story.
Hmm. I’m not sure I like this conceptualization that the “opposite” of theism is “atheism.” Didn’t Dawkins (or someone else, I’m not sure) say that we’re all non-believers in MOST Gods, and atheists just take it one more? I also don’t like the binary terms. Imho, there are indeed evil atheists, just as there are evil theists, and good (read: prosocial?) atheists, and good theists.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
-Stephen Roberts
This conflation of atheism and Satanism is not good.
i wonder if church leaders even know what satanism is? they probably dont realize that one major type of satanism is called *theistic* satanism (e.g. diane vera).
they believe in a literal devil/satan, and are thus, not atheistic. so by nelsons definition, theistic satanism is godly. =)
laveyan satanism (anton lavey, “author” of the satanic bible) is basically atheism+iconoclasm+humanism and is NOT devil worship, they dont believe in a literal satan.
and yes, atheism != satanism
Just to keep up with the rhetorical flourish I’ll have to start bandying the phrase “theistic moral bedlam” about.
When Christianish types say things like “religious forces instill a conscience” isn’t this already conceding that conscience isn’t God given? Aren’t we created in God’s image and endowed with our conscience by God? Only atheists need forces on earth (religious or otherwise) to “instill a conscience”, God being missing and all. To me this guy sounds like an atheist who has a strong belief in “theistic conviction”.
lol damn elder nelson caught us. I want to legalize gay marriage not because it’s the right thing to do , rather i have a secret plot to wipe theism off the map. muahahahaha cough cough. I actually believe that most of the twelve and for that matter religious leaders are atheist. I think that they do firmly believe that without some guilt ridden moral code that is enforced after death, that the world would go to crap. I think places like Switzerland and Japan and china have proved such notions false, but they have thus become a part of the machine. So in order to keep their congregations in line they use scare tactics . “if there is no religion then everybody will turn into rapist and cannibals.” Fear is a good motivation for people, I think there are quite a few atheist out there who remain in church just because they feel it’s necessary to maintain social order. I disagree hardily, but I think it happens allot
Good point – It seems as if Elder Nelson has no faith in himself to do the right thing if he doesn’t have the fear of God in him. Or maybe he realizes that there is no rational basis for discriminating against gays so he need to appeal to a higher, inscrutable authority, to bolster his unexplainable prejudices that were inculcated in his youth.
Blegh. Just disgusting. Is it just me or are the LDS leaders talking about political issues more than they usually do? I thought it used to never happen.
It started happening after both Gordon B. Hinckley (moderate conservative) & James E. Faust died (liberal). All that was left was the conservative ideologues.
I don’t think Hinckley would have let the prop 8 thing get so ugly. He was far more concerned with the church’s image than Thomas S. Monson ever was.
What happened to Mormons teaching that God believes that all other religions were an “abomination”?
How can there be “absolute right and wrong” when the religions he cites disagree on what constitutes “right and wrong”? If there is one thing that the multitude of religions demonstrate is that there is no “absolute right and wrong” taught by religion!
Mr. Nelson, and all other believers, enjoy the freedom from being forced to follow the dictates of other religions, and the freedom to reject all other religions. Why can’t he extend that freedom to people who reject all religions as true? Buddhism does not believe in an all powerful deity. Would Mr. Nelson support making its practice illegal?
Who is he to talk about “good culture”? Was polygamy “good culture”? Was teaching racist doctrine “good culture”? Is the false culture contained in Book of Mormon with its constant warfare “good culture” where as the actual culture of the Native Americans which it tries to supplant, not “good culture.” Is “good culture” only created by one of the three major monotheistic religions?
Um, their convictions on “same-gender” marriage is already considered bigoted. So his reasoning is that in order for his beliefs to not be repressed he must be the oppressor! Why can’t people just have a live and let live attitude? No one is calling for the outlaw of traditional marriage. There is no evidence that if “same-gender” marriage is legalized that heterosexual marriages will stop. We live in a pluralistic society. If Mr. Nelson wants people to respect his beliefs and his freedoms he needs to afford others the same right.
Mormons used to have a preacher teaching false doctrine for Satan in the temple. Now they realize that atheism is a bigger threat. Funny how whimsical they are about who is friendly and who is not.
So what do you argue when and if one of said religions, worse a Christian religion, endorses same sex marriage? How then do you make a dichotomous argument out of it?
Theology v. godless theology? That doesn’t even make sense.
“I plead with you dear brothers and sisters to shun pornography absolutely,” he said. “It is as destructive as leprosy, as addictive as meth and as corrosive as lye.”
“And it takes a huge toll on your monthly bandwidth. So I hear.”
Great blog! Not sure if this is related but it was somewhat touched on by Nelson…(the idea that without God there would be no morality). I think the ‘once saved always saved’ crowd pretty much proves this idea wrong. Once you are saved, you do not have to worry about eternal consequences. You could in theory do whatever you want and still gain salvation. Yet, you don’t see these people running a muck, killing and raping. (Some say that atheists still fear God and this is why they don’t behave immorally.)
I’m not even going to touch the same-sex marriage business, the LDS church enrages me to no end on that front.
I love the phrase “Freedom from religion.” It pretty much negates his earlier statement about submitting willingly to religious law. It’s probably my bias on the subject and the person “discussing” it but it has a tone that makes me want to turn on my propaganda alarm.
Also, I’m genuinely confused about his reference to the Christian school teacher being charged for upholding bigotry. I really don’t see the connection, but I’m pro sex-ed. I really think the only teachers who discourage the law of chastity are the ones who have affairs with their students.
Also also, the summer’s boredom has pushed me into a blogging phase and I’ve been working on articulating some thoughts about morality without religion. Jon, if you get bored, the lowly blog is theneanderthaldiaries.blogspot.com
I’ll be sure to frequent your blog, Courtney. And feel free to guest blog here! I could use some relief from writing.
At your blog, your write that you have “an idea for a series of blogs, essentially addressing my relationship with the church, as well as my views and reasons for leaving.” Would you be interested posting any of that series here?
K, I can’t help myself since I’ve been poking around the site and looking at prop-8 related stuff. Nelson’s talk is incredibly hypocritical and it screams “mormon persecution complex” (thank you, Captain Obvious). My point is, that the propaganda “sweet Moses this is ridiculous” alarm has sounded.
I liked the about.com link attached to the phrase “freedom from religion.” It highlights exactly the hypocrisy within this entire situation. The church is basing its argument against same-sex marriage on religious beliefs (again, duh). People who want to marry some one of the same sex do not have the same freedoms Mr. Nelson enjoys because he is imposing his beliefs on them and dictating how they should behave, based on something that is fundamentally arbitrary. Flip the situation. If gays are not getting married on Nelson’s front lawn, I fail to see how THEY are imposing on HIS free practice of religion. Does he feel uncomfortable? Well, I get uncomfortable on airplanes; it happens, we deal, we move on. It really frustrates me to see him sob about his rights being at risk, remind us that people of the same sex shouldn’t marry, and then wrap it with a pretty bow of “look how persecuted we are.”
Well, I feel much better now.
@Jon, I could consider posting that stuff here if I manage to articulate it properly. I’m still not fully public, which is my main reason for hesitating. Feel free to comment with suggestions and stuff. Part of the blog’s purpose is to get my argument-construction skills up to scratch.
I too was bothered by Nelson’s equation of atheism with satanism. Whether or not he actually knows anything about the different types of actual satanism or not, he’s clearly feeding into the Mormon belief that everyone who’s not aligned with them is aligned with satan. Like Courtney pointed out, it’s all part of the Mormon persecution complex. The more they can convince themselves that everyone’s out to get them, that they’re the sole real bastions of morality and goodness and godliness fighting the evil satanic gays and atheists (and depending on whom you ask, blacks and Muslims and Catholics), the less they have to actually live in reality where nothing is really black/white, and where atheists and gays are people too.
The funny thing is that, among the Mormon laity, atheists don’t really seem to be loathed. Many of my Mormon friends have said that they prefer atheists to, say, evangelical Protestants. The other irony is that Mormonism and atheism have a lot in common. They both reject the supernatural–the Mormon god lives within this universe, and not outside it like the traditional Christian god. And Mormonism, like secular humanism, is human-oriented, not god-oriented. The purpose of this life, on Mormonism, is NOT to worship and glorify god, but instead to find happiness. “Man is that he might have joy” (2 Ne 2:25). And god’s purpose is to facilitate man’s. God tells Moses, “my work and my glory [is] to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).
Yeah, I don’t really remember any preaching against atheists/atheism growing up. The only real exposure I had to atheism was in conjunction with Soviet communism, not at all the kind of atheism that exists in our society. This new preaching against secularism/atheism is pretty odd.
I think though, that Mormonism is trying to emulate the tactics both of the Catholic church as well as Evangelicals. The current Vatican has been preaching hard against secularism, atheism, and moral relativism, and I guess the LdS hierarchy thinks this is a good tactic as well.