The topic of pornography permeates a lot of my conversations with friends, but I have largely avoided the topic here because its relevance to atheism and secular humanism is pretty tenuous. I could contrive some connection, but I won’t bother, so please pardon the digression. I just feel compelled to write about pornography because it’s an important issue that merits sober discussion, but rarely gets one. Well that, and you’re supposed to write about what you know. Ha ha.
Many of us were raised in a conservative religious environment wherein pornography was demonized. My parents were more permissive than most Mormon parents, but I was still taught by church leaders and peers that pornography was a grievous sin and serious evil.
When I left the LDS Church, I was forced to re-evaluate my moral philosophy. Mormonism was mistaken about god—why not morality as well? In my estimation, the church got some things right (family, charity, love) and others wrong (R-rated movies, coffee, homosexuality). My take on pornography, however, is decidedly more nuanced.
It’s important to acknowledge at the outset that pornography is not a monolith, and is instead very diverse. I’ll be speaking about it in generalities, so don’t read my comments as a defense/critique of all porn. And just as porn is diverse, so too are its viewers, one third of whom are women.*
Another thing I wish to mention before discussing the effects of pornography is that its opposition extends across the religious and political spectrum. A few of my atheist friends are critical of and abstain from porn, and I respect that choice. Some prominent liberal thinkers (Noam Chomsky 
and feminists (Andrea Dworkin, Catharine MacKinnon likewise oppose pornography.
Perhaps the most common objection to pornography is that it degrades and objectifies women. It can, and often does, yet the same could be said of our media culture more generally. I’m unwilling to impose my definition of degradation upon all women; they ought to define it for themselves. What one woman finds degrading, another may find liberating.
As for the objectification of women: Objects don’t have sexuality, only beings do. I agree that some porn presents a hyper-sexualized view of women, but the opposite extreme of denying feminine sexuality is similarly dehumanizing. The salient point is that we shouldn’t reduce people to one trait, be that their sexuality, intelligence, humor, and so forth.
Also, the argument from the degradation of women is moot where gay male pornography is concerned. The relatively balanced power dynamic within gay couples, the voracious male libido, and the fact that both parties can penetrate and be penetrated, make degradation difficult.
Related to the previous concern is the contention that pornography contributes to sexual violence against women. The studies cited to support this claim are dated, inconclusive, and—like many studies about sex—fraught with methodological problems. Interestingly, a number of recent studies have actually suggested that porn may decrease the incidence of sexual violence. Despite the massive proliferation of pornography in recent decades, sexual violence like rape has been declining in the United States. This same negative correlation has been observed in Canada, Croatia, Denmark, Germany, Finland, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Sweden. And in Japan, where violent pornography is pervasive, the sexual violence rate is lower than in the U.S. These studies tried to control for other factors in order to isolate the variable of pornography, but even so, correlation is not necessarily causation.
And not only has pornography traveled with decreased sexual violence, but increased gender equality as well. Were porn really turning men into misogynists, shouldn’t we see evidence of that reflected in crime statistics and sociopolitical attitudes?
So it seems pornography’s effects at the societal level are either negligible or nominally positive. Where I think its effects are more deleterious are at the personal level. The divorce rate in the U.S. has remained stable or decreased slightly in recent years, but pornography is playing a bigger role in those divorces that do occur. I’m sure most of us could think of a relationship (whether ours or someone else’s) that was strained due to pornography.
For some couples, pornography facilitates sexual intimacy, but I imagine it hinders romance for the majority. Pornography can give people a distorted view of sex and engender feelings of betrayal and inadequacy in their partners. Pornography alone, however, is not to blame for these relationship problems. Those couples torn apart by pornography usually have pre-existing communication problems. If men were more open about their pornography use, and women more understanding of it, the tension stemming from pornography would be lessened.
And due in part to this failure of communication, women frequently confuse pornography use for infidelity. There is a double-standard at play here, though. Men are shamed for viewing pornography, but it’s far more acceptable for women to enjoy romance novels and films like the “Twilight” series that also invoke sexual fantasies and promote unrealistic expectations of men.
Another reason pornography is potentially harmful to is that it can dull one’s romantic interest in other people. As a consumer of porn, and a 22-year-old virgin whose first and last kiss was nearly three years ago, I may be proof of this. The interplay between pornography and the sexual repression I experienced as a gay Mormon probably stunted my sexual maturity.
Finally, viewing or reading pornography can become an unhealthy and compulsive behavior. (I’m reticent to call it an “addiction,” however, as it doesn’t strictly meet the clinical criteria and isn’t associated with withdrawals.) Some psychologists have compared it to cocaine in its ability to alter the brain. The intense stimulation from pornography reroutes the circuitry of our brains to seek out more of these perceived rewards, which may come at the expense of friendships, school, work, etc.
If you view pornography compulsively, consult a trained professional, not your local ecclesiastical leader. Religious approaches to treating compulsive sexual behavior are often ineffectual or counterproductive.
I’m interested to hear what you think. Again, because of its taboo and sensitive nature, pornography doesn’t get the thoughtful discussion it deserves.** I hope our discussion in the comments thread can serve as a model.
*Failing to note in my initial draft that women view pornography was a glaring omission.
**Speaking of thoughtful discussions about pornography, I’d be remiss not to recommend Greta Christina’s defense of kinky porn and criticism of “Girls Gone Wild”. At the invite of our sister group SHIFT, she will be speaking at the University of Utah on April 16th.
You bring up the subject of romance novels, etc, which brings to mind the fact that there is a difference between pornography and erotica. Generally, watching pornography is an act of passive reception, whereas erotica generates imaginative thoughts and fantasies. I would also point out that we see a difference in behavior between men and women because of the fact that sexually, men tend to be better stimulated visually, while women tend to be more verbal (generally speaking). Though I definitely agree that romance novels can engender false ideals about men in similar ways that pornography creates false ideals about women. However, in both cases, I think it’s more about the attitude and presumptions of the consumer, not the nature of the product. Because by that same logic Disney movies create false ideals about men and women. With Disney movies however, we say that it’s just a story and adults looking to Disney movies for help with their romantic relationships are misguided; the same can be said of pornography.
I believe that most of the relationship problems associated with pornography are largely due to cultural beliefs about it, which causes viewers to be secretive and their partners to feel betrayed. The fact that porn is/can be a detriment for some people has been extrapolated to all, when it’s just not true. My husband used to spend a lot of time playing games similar to farmville, and it got in the way of our relationship. He has promised never to get into one of those games again because of the person it turns him into. Would anyone condemn the game itself, or would they say that for my husband as an individual, the game is bad? Probably the latter.
That said, I agree with what was said in an episode of Mormon Stories Podcast, that pornography can negatively effect our sexual imaginations, and get in the way of real sexual satisfaction http://mormonstories.org/?p=1384. To what extent, and with what consistency in the general population, I don’t know. I also think there was a great discussion of pornography in the female sexuality episode of Mormon Expression found here http://mormonexpression.com/2011/03/08/120a-female-sexuality-in-the-lds-culture-part-1/ and here http://mormonexpression.com/2011/03/08/120a-female-sexuality-in-the-lds-culture-part-1/
I’d also like to point out that the presumption that women don’t watch porn (“If men were more open about their pornography use, and women were more understanding of it …) is not only false, but it helps to perpetuate the idea that women don’t or shouldn’t desire sexual pleasure.
I completely agree with your last two paragraphs. My religious (Catholic) upbringing along with pornography definitely stunted my sexual maturity, and as with almost anything that gives pleasure, of course pornography can become compulsive.
I’ve often thought it was interesting that different people could have such wildly different experiences of porn. On the one hand, you have people who watch casually and feel no anxiety or difficulty laying porn aside, and on the other hand you have people who find porn more brain-wormy than the catchiest Ke$ha song. Most of us come from conservative religious cultures, and those who don’t have probably experienced Logan, so we’ve all heard the stories of people who saw one frame of porn (or whatever) and could never get it out of their head, pornography is dangerous, etc. etc.
I don’t want to disregard these people’s experience; I believe them when they say porn sticks in their head like a fishhook. But it’s so different from mine, where I don’t care about it much one way or the other. I saw an interview with a USU professor in which he suggested people who are morally concerned with pornography really do have a harder time getting it out of their head. Since they think of pornography and its attendant thoughts as evil, it worries them. Like all humans, they have a hard time getting their mind off of worrisome things. By continually thinking about not thinking about pornography, they constantly remind themselves of pornography. I suspect it’s this vicious circle that makes pornography appear so inescapable to the people who fear it.
I think this article talks about the same guy I remember. Skip to the section titled “Mormon Mission ‘Hell on Earth.’”
Also, on the matter of romance novels, it may be there’s a different feeling about them because of the way they come to be – a person writes down the story. With porn, real human beings participate in the sexual acts. The people in romance novels don’t exist. You can’t abuse someone who doesn’t exist.
I feel so much happier now I undetrsnad all this. Thanks!
Spooky synchronicity — I just finished a series of posts about pornography today. It was an extended response to a book/pamphlet by evangelical pastor Mark Driscoll which condemned pornography from an ostensibly Christian perspective. It seems to me that just about all the sources of loathing and disgust that people feel about natural bodily functions and attributes are religious or at least hiding behind a veneer of religion. Christians like Driscoll don’t condemn pornography because it tends to exploit women; after all, he teaches that men are superior to women and wives should be totally subservient to their husbands. That’s not bad in their mind! They think pornography is bad because it’s about sex and that’s bad. Human reproduction, in the words of Butch Hancock, is seen as “the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love.” Obviously that sort of teaching is prone to confuse kids and interfere with their development into mature adults.
I came here to say what Carla already said:
Like you, I re-evaluated a lifetime of cultural conditioning when I left the LDS Church. During my previous life, the idea of watching porn and/or masturbating repulsed me. I thought both were only desirable to lustful men who lacked discipline. But in the time since I left, I’ve come to view moderate use of porn as a fun aspect of personal and interpersonal sexuality.
I think porn addiction is as real as alcohol addiction – but just as with alcohol, there are plenty of people able to consume responsibly.
As for producing it responsibly…well..that’s another issue.
I think a useful analogy is violent video games. Certainly violent video games depict a society that would be horrible to actually bring about and they would appear encourage impulses in people that are better to be well controlled. But Grand Theft Auto games don’t correlate with actual grand theft auto crimes. The simple answer to the dilemma is that fantasy is not reality. Human beings know the difference between the two and in their infinite perverseness (or perversion :P) they want in fantasy what they cannot do in reality. The crudeness of pornography is not reflective of the crudeness of porn consumers. Arguments about the psychology of porn therefore, are useless without actual data. I agree with Jon, to my understanding the data is not against pornography.
Lastly pornography isn’t going anywhere anytime soon (you make either the technological or biological argument here). In so far that is true, it makes much more sense to improve pornography then to censor it. From gourmet foods and heated toilets, making an existing aspect of life more comfortable is a well-precedented human pastime. If there is indeed a pernicious psychological influence in pornography, I think that it could be overcome with competition.
Although I believe pornography has the right to exist, I believe pornography (as it is generally defined, and separate from erotica) to be anti-feminist, and I have yet to read anything that I feel adequately refutes it.
Yes, objects have no sexuality, but that is just a red herring. The point is that an “object” serves a limited function and that is exactly how women are portrayed: as receptacles for aggressive and distorted male sexuality. One of the worst things patriarchy has done is taken a genuine desire for sexual liberation and twisted it into a set of acts performed for men. This is a mockery of feminism, which was/is intended to allow women to recreate themselves in new ways.
Porn also doesn’t do men any favors. It often portrays men as irrational creatures whose sole desire is to have sex, often with a women who is unwilling at first but finds she enjoys it. I do not appreciate male sexuality having such strong links to rape and violence.
Gay porn presents an interesting dynamic, however. I’m afraid I can’t really comment on it since I’ve never watched it (I’m straight) and I’ve done little research into the subject.
Yeah, I’ve viewed my fair share of both gay and straight porn, and gay porn doesn’t suffer from quite the same problems of straight porn. It may suffer from a unique set of problems, but I’m not sure what those would be.
And while I share your general assessment of straight porn, I do think there are plenty of exceptions. I’ve seen porn that I think I can safely call feminist. I also want to add that when guys watch arguably misogynistic porn, it’s not that they get off on making women suffer. What turns them on is the idea that women enjoy aggressive, hardcore sex. The pornographic actors often put on an act that they do, when the acts might actually be quite painful. But others still may genuinely enjoy it.
I do not deny that there are women who probably love rough sex, but that still fails to address the power deficit between the man and woman in porn. Just because women might be physically stimulated by it does not make it feminist, or excuse the underlying problems.
I think erotica can be feminist, because it is based on mutual satisfaction as equal partners. But porn distorts sexuality by virtue of its distorting power relations. So I would not say I have seen porn I could consider feminist.
(I get the feeling we’re probably arguing on the same side, and this is just an issue of semantics, but I could be wrong.)
You may not have read anything which refutes the idea that pornography is anti feminist, but I have yet to read anything which confirms it. As the author pointed out, serious criticisms of pornography have generally been written from a dogmatic perspective (either ecclesiastical or feminist) or have suffered serious methodological problems. There has not been a definitive scientific analysis showing any negative effects of pornography. You may be unconvinced by this or other articles which dismiss feminist concerns, but as with anything else, what you assert without evidence others may fairly dismiss without evidence.
Jake, regarding your view that porn is anti-feminist – I think that’s probably a bit of an overstatement. There may be some (eg. violent porn) that is, but in reference to the porn I (a woman) have seen: I think Jeffrey brings up a good point – that humans have a surprising capacity to distinguish between fantasy and reality. I’m projecting my own experiences here, but I’m in a very equal relationship – both partners pursuing advanced degrees and planning to work to support a family. I feel no pressure from my porn viewing to become a slut in real life. I don’t wear makeup or girly clothes, etc. Just a thought.
And what about lesbian porn?? This conversation continues to feel a bit one-sided to me. Women view porn too!
@ Nick: I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to argue. I’ve been open about the fact that I am arguing against pornography from a feminist perspective.
The reason there is no “definitive scientific” research is that pornography conflates biology and sociology, which makes the issue a little more complicated than most. There likely will never be anything “definitive” for either side. But society creates how the potential for sexuality is expressed, and it seems bafflingly obvious to me how porn perpetuates the patriarchal system. As a feminist, I oppose that. If you can give me specific examples of how porn expresses feminist ideals, I’d like to hear them.
@ Sarah: I find that the “women watch it too” argument simply doesn’t hold water. The only thing it proves is that porn his highly normalized.
In the society we live in, where patriarchal inequality is the norm, there will always be large sections of the population which agree with the expression of those values. There were African-Americans who defended racist depictions of their race in early films, but that doesn’t make the depictions less racist or less corrosive to race relations. The same applies here.
As to your “fantasy vs. reality” point, I agree. Porn, by itself, does not turn women into sluts or men into rapists. But that doesn’t demonstrate a lack of truth to what I am saying, because I never claimed otherwise.
In regards to lesbian porn, I think it demonstrates nicely where erotica divides from porn. If you looked at a spectrum of lesbian porn, notice how the more aggressive it becomes, the more they use straight porn as a template and reinforce the same power divide.
I personally don’t see it as anti-feminist, not just because I, as a female, enjoy it on occasion.
(The following comments are talking only of straight porn, although I think there are other interesting discussions to be had of gay and lesbian porn.)
You say porn shows women “as receptacles for aggressive and distorted male sexuality.” While there is some aggressive porn out there, I’ve seen plenty with the women as an aggressor. Generally the porn I’ve seen show both men and women having a good time having sex. I think “rape” porn is relatively infrequent. The vast majority of what I’ve seen shows both partners as interested and enthusiastic from the get go.
In your reply to Jon, you say, “I think erotica can be feminist, because it is based on mutual satisfaction as equal partners. But porn distorts sexuality by virtue of its distorting power relations.”
I’m just confused where you and most people get this idea that sex in general and in porn specifically is not mutually satisfactory and inherently unequal. Porn generally goes out of its way to show how much satisfaction both parties are getting, and while it is exaggerated for the future viewing audience, I have seen very little porn or other erotic material that goes out of its way to deny women pleasure. I think porn, more than almost anything else, shows sex as a good in and of itself on the woman’s part. So many things in mainstream media, or in religion, show sex as a way to manipulate men or make it laden with so many alternative meanings (sin in some cases), that I find it frankly refreshing to see women enjoying sex with someone that (at least for the purposes of that video) they are presumably attracted to.
I think there also tends to be this idea that because men are the ones doing the penetrating in the vast majority of cases, then it is showing an unhealthy aggression/violence/dominance/power/etc. I just don’t see it (for the most part. there will always be exceptions). That’s just how the bits fit together. It doesn’t necessarily mean there is a power imbalance. I frequently see women in porn taking control of what they want and directing men to do something that pleasures them. The idea that sex in porn is not pleasing for women and that women take a passive role is more a relic of social constructs built up around sex and gender roles in general, in my opinion, than of the reality of what happens in most pornos.
To say that it stunts the sexual maturity of men and woman is an understatement. Because difficulties with sex is among the most pervasive problems through out matrimonial unions in the US, pornography is hardly an advantageous partner. Most woman will experience, if they have yet to experience, a man who perceives them as an object to be used rather than a partner to experience passion. Its true objects aren’t sexual, people are sexual- but the idea that people CAN BE treated as objects is a theme through out world history and by most (of at least those participating in this conversation) viewed is undisputedly evil. (Ie.. slavery, war, human trafficking etc..) Lets not be fooled by saying that pornography doesn’t add to heart break in the home, and within relationships. Of course, I am not expressing that just because you watch porn you are propelled to wicked acts of degrading woman or devaluing sex, but it is absolutely one step in that direction. As someone who is married, I am highly offended by the comment, “If men were more open about their pornography use, and women more understanding of it, the tension stemming from pornography would be lessened.” What self centered garbage. (I know Im going to get some backlash on this) but when a man commits to marriage and a woman likewise- they should abide with in that union. If one partner is uncomfortable about his or her spouse fantasying about having rough and degrading sex with several other partners- and I believe they are entitled to dislike it. In that single comment, you like pornography, degraded woman and devalued their worth as persons with feelings.
For those who have a significant other who find pornography distasteful – be selfless, be faithful, be respectful. If you don’t see selfish, uncontrolled desires as the culprit to damaged marriages then you are simply fooling yourselves. Now I know some couples enjoy watching it together, and COUPLES are open to that choice, but lets remember that two people make up a couple. Although it has been mentioned that there may be advantages to pornography, I find that the ills (by far) out way the benefits.
Since when is porn necessarily rough or degrading? Geesh. Have you ever watched any or are you relying only on what you’ve heard from others?
And what is your evidence? Personal, anecdotal or empirical?
I understand why my remark might have offended you, Guy, but perhaps you misunderstand my point. I wasn’t trying to justify pornography within a monogamous relationship per se. I totally understand why someone might oppose their partner’s pornography use. My point wasn’t that you should continue to view porn regardless of your partner’s feelings, but rather that there ought to be effective communication about the issue. That’s all.
Thanks Jon. I understand your position. I understand that some people enjoy pornography and its accepted within relationships, and its vastly accepted in society. Thanks for clarifying that point though. I have seen porn venomously take over the lives of many men and woman- making raw, undirected sexuality the center of their worlds. Simplysara- you’re right, not all porn is the same. In fact you can find porn that ranges from one extreme to the next- however, I was speaking mostly toward the comment that 1. woman aren’t objectified 2. That wives should be more chill about it and 3. the idea that it stunts sexual maturity or maturity with relationships. I am not saying that those who participate in porn are bad, but rather that porn has the propensity to destroy lives, relationships, etc… when abused or placed above the commitments of a union.
I actually think most of this argument misses the point about what is wrong with pornography, because so few Americans have a clear understanding of the purpose, meaning, and dignity of persons and their sexuality. But I will set that aside.
If you want to have the argument entirely in consequentialist terms, then it is worth defining some terms and making some distinctions, since not all pornography is created equal. Typically people break sexually explicit material into three classes:
Violent pornography: shows real or simulated acts of violence. A common theme: the woman rebuffs an advance, the man forces himself on her, and then she ends up enjoying it (the “rape myth”).
Degrading pornography: non-violent, but the two partners are not of equal status. Degrading pornography often depicts women being dominated, having a subordinate position or perhaps being humiliated. Or degrading pornography can simply present the woman as being there simply and only to please the man.
Erotica: non-violent and non-degrading. Both partners are presented as equally important, neither is presented as being there merely for the pleasure of the other.
The other class, of course, is child pornography. But this is usually not considered “sexually explicit material” since it is generally (and rightly) categorized as simple child abuse. Still, the amount of child pornography on the web has increased 4 fold since 2003. And technology raises interesting questions here – is it child pornography if the child in the image or movie is entirely computer generated?
Worth noting that, according to studies I have seen, erotica is by far the smallest class of pornography. Many posters here share anecdotal evidence that most of what they have seen is what would be classified as erotica. But the studies do not bear this out, studies suggest that most pornographic material is violent or degrading.
I would be interested is links/sources of the studies you’ve seen, if you have them.
Sorry, I do not have them ready to hand. A student wrote a paper on this for me a few years back and cited a range of studies. So I am running off my recollection; I no longer have that paper.
I’ll have to see if I can find something. I’m willing to admit that whatever these studies are may be correct. It’s possible that the sites I frequent simply do not show “rape” porn. The only time I see violence in porn is generally as an SM fetish type situation, and the ones I’ve seen are not male-centric. They are pretty evenly split between dominant females and males and gay and lesbian.
Does USU SHAFT support NAMBLA (North America Man/Boy Love Association)…? Plain simple yes or no–without all the editorial B.S….
Though I’m loathe to even dignify the question: No.
Harland Carpenter, you’re totally hilarious.
Does anyone support NAMBLA? Other than NAMBLA, of course…
To the subject of porn being anti-feminist, I found this to be a fabuluos discussion: http://lfab-uvm.blogspot.com/2007/03/questioning-objectification.html
Guys: Get off the alleged open-minded kick and read EVERYTHING on Wikipedia about NAMBLA, its history as a former ILGA associate, and its connections and endorsements by gay icons such as Allen Ginsberg and Harry Hay. Considering the totality of circumstance, events and history, it should be very enlightening. It leaves one with the lingering suspicion that NAMBLA’s goals were where ILGA REALLY planned to go in the first place– but public outrage over their association prompted them disavow their original support and association… Kinda like the old “bridge too far” thing, huh…? The public just wasn’t quite ready yet…
What.
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